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Neuman, Charlcia (audio interview #1 of 1)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This single, long interview with Charlcia Neuman proceeded well after an initial testy conversation (see Narrator bio summary for details). 2/27/1981
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- *** File: rrrcneuman1.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-4:43)... Neuman maternal ancestors traced back to the Mayflower voyage to America. She was raised "in a very patriotic family," noting that her relatives fought in every major war. Her family frequently discussed political matters and her mother was a member of election boards before women were granted suffrage. Both sets of grandparents eventually migrated to Oregon where her parents married and Neuman was born. She could not recall hearing any stories about their migration to the West. She was very fond of an uncle who liked to talk about his days as an Indian scout. (4:43-6:56)... Neuman's grandfather worked as a blacksmith in Ella, Oregon. Her mother was born in Ella and named after the town. She was an intelligent woman and worked as a school teacher in Sheridan, Oregon until she married at the age of twenty-two. (6:56-9:38)... Neuman's father was a "jack of all trades." He was born in Ohio where his family farmed. He also worked as a farmer in Kansas. When he moved to Sheridan, Oregon he worked as a mechanic, a barber, and a carpenter. Neuman's parent married when her mother was twenty-two and her father was twenty-nine. Her mother stopped teaching after she married. Neuman was born in 1911. When she was eighteen months old, they moved to California. She had five siblings, the youngest was eleven years younger than her. (9:38-14:52)... Neuman moved to Los Angeles with her parents in 1913. There were relatives living in Los Angeles and her parents thought that "things would be better down here. Living wasn't so easy in those days." They rented a home on Trinity Avenue near Wrigley Field. The home was infested with bed bugs and they moved in with her grandmother until it was exterminated. Her father went to work for Stillwell Garage fixing cars. When she was four years old, they moved to Wilmington. Their was no bathroom in their home and she remembers that her parents had to carry her to the outhouse because she was afraid of their rooster. Her father commuted to work on a motorcycle that had a side car. Neuman began attending kindergarten while living in Wilmington, but she attended grammar school at Trinity Avenue Elementary School. In 1918, the family moved once again and settled in Bell. (14:52-17:20)... Neuman was close to her sisters, but her brother stayed to himself. She never heard her parents argue. She usually went to her father when she had a problem because he was "more easy going...and smoothed things over so the problems seemed to go away." Her mother, on the other hand, was a "very nervous type of person and very quick and capable." Neuman was closest to her mother as an adult. Her mother enjoyed shopping, and even when she was an old woman she had to go shopping when a new center opened. (17:20-17:54)... Neuman liked to play with dolls when she was a child. However, she did not have very many toys growing and she and her girlfriends sort of invented activities to keep themselves busy. (17:54-19:53)... Neuman finished kindergarten in Wilmington; her family returned to Los Angeles and she enrolled in grammar school. She enjoyed kindergarten because she got to make things and work with her hands. Her sisters took her to school because people use to always say "Don't let the gypsies get you. They steal little children." Neuman recalls that the Banning family rode carriages around Wilmington. Her father loved fishing and enjoyed fishing in San Pedro. (19:53-22:05)... Neuman and her family moved to Bell, California in 1917 when she was six years old. Her father purchased a house on an acre of land. They had different pets and animals living on their land, including chickens and six goats. They got their vegetables from their garden and usually purchased eggs and milk from the store. Her younger brother was sick as a child and he was fed goats milk, which seemed to help. When they moved to Bell, her father stayed at Stillwells and commuted to work in a car. He was laid off when the owner's nephew took over the business and fired all the older men. (22:05-25:13)... Other than feeding the animals and working in the yard, she was not responsible for very many household chores. She was very active and enjoyed climbing their fruit trees. In the mornings, she climbed the trees with a book and sat their reading and eating fruit for breakfast. She thinks that she learned how to read before she started kindergarten. She remembers her father reading the comics to her and believes that is how she learned how to read. She also liked adventure stories. She wore dresses that were handmade by her mother. Occasionally, she wore her brother's old pants when she played outside. (25:13-26:00)... Neuman's brother made their first radio. She does not recall listening to radio programs because her favorite activity was reading. (26:00-28:17)... She suffered through subjects like math and spelling. Her favorite scholastic activities were those that involved using her hands or creating artwork. She thought about pursuing a career in art when she was a young girl. She also enjoyed history and geography because those studies involved a lot of reading. She liked school because it gave her a chance to socialize with friends and participate in sports like baseball, basketball, and tennis. These activities were not organized in her day and she feels that organized sports excludes children who are not particularly athletic. End of tape. *** File: rrrcneuman2.mp3 (0:00-1:58)... When she played sports in the neighborhood it was with boys and girls. In school, however, boys and girls played sports separately. She wore a dress when she played outside at home, but was required to wear bloomers in gym class. She continued to participate in physical activities when she was in high school. She married after she graduated from high school when she was eighteen years old. She and her husband stayed active and enjoyed hiking, walking, and riding bicycles. (1:58-4:04)... She began going on group dates when she was fourteen years old. Their dating activities involved going to dances or to the movies. Her mother was a member of the Eastern Stars and once a month the Masons would organize a dance. Neuman and her girlfriends would go to these dances chaperoned by their parents. She began going out on dates along with men when she was sixteen. She married when she was eighteen shortly after she graduated from high school. (4:04-10:53)... Neuman describes how she met her husband, a fireman in Bell. Her mother was not happy when she married, but "she didn't make a fuss about it." Even though her husband was nine years older than Neuman, he acted young and they had a lot in common. They married in 1930 in the midst of the Depression. Her husband saved enough of his $165-a-month salary to pay the mortgage on a house her father built for them. He then lost his job and was unemployed for three years, during which time they lived off his savings. Her father-in-law lived next door and gave them eggs and chicken for food. Their only luxury during the Depression was paying ten cents to see a movie. They were near foreclosure when the Homeowners Refinancing Act was passed and "We were able to squeak by a little more by paying just a very small amount." (10:53-12:01)... When Neuman and her husband married, they planned on having a family. She got pregnant right away and gave birth to a daughter in 1931. Neuman did not plan on working after marriage, stating that it "was the usual thing for a woman to run a house...and taking care of a house was not the easiest thing either." Her husband lost his job in 1932 when their daughter was a baby. (12:01-13:25)... Neuman got very sick when she was sixteen years old and subsequently developed arthritis at the young age of nineteen. She learned to live with the pain and was an active mother. Although her physical activities decreased, she occasionally went hiking in the mountains, which she found easier than walking around on cement sidewalks. (13:25-16:04)... Her husband was a Mason and when they married, she joined the Eastern Stars. Their circle of friends revolved around this activities in these organizations. Neuman was also very close with a girlfriend she met when she was ten. They went to school together and were as close as sisters their entire lives. Most of the time, Neuman and her husband socialized with other couples. She occasionally visited with girlfriends and they gathered to do handwork in each other's homes. Overall, however, Neuman did not have a lot of time to socialize because she was busy with her home and it usually took her awhile to complete tasks because of her arthritic condition. (16:04-18:22)... Towards the end of the Depression, her husband got a job at a laundry facility earning $15 a week: "it was still difficult, but it was money and we managed." He then was hired by the school board, but was laid off after the board's funds were depleted. Although eligible, Neuman and her husband declined welfare because they wanted to manage their own affairs. He worked odd jobs for school board members and when they were reelected, they helped him get back on the school board. He worked for the school board during WWII. Neuman is happy that her husband stayed there because she now lives comfortably on his pension. (18:22-21:12)... When her daughter was old enough, Neuman tried to get involved with PTA, but did not think that the women there were very welcoming. She, therefore, spent most of her time outside the family participating in Eastern Star and Mason activities. She found an outlet for artistic expression in decorating the tables and halls for these events. She also stayed busy with handwork, indicating that she made most of her and her daughter's clothing. Looking back, Neuman wishes that she spent some of her money on art lessons while she was young and had time to develop her talents. (21:12-22:35)... Neuman and her husband decided not to have anymore children because things were too unstable for them and in the country during the Depression and WWII. They used condoms for birth control. Neuman could not understand why women would resort to "using all this dope when a man could simply use something that would work." Her husband was very considerate and never complained about having to use a condom when they had intercourse. (22:35-23:48)... Neuman and her family spent their time going to the movies or to the beach. They very rarely invited others when they went on family outings. End of tape. *** File: rrrcneuman3.mp3 (0:00-0:17)... Neuman discusses her family background. (0:17-2:35)... Neuman was in the kitchen listening to the radio when she heard that Pearl Harbor was attacked. The "patriotic feeling was so strong that anyone would have done anything to help." People did not protest the war even though she believes that mistakes were made during the war. She talks about her Japanese internment and remembers when a Japanese American family was evacuated. Her husband told her that there were some Japanese on Terminal Island who were spies and "because of that everybody suffered and it was wrong." (2:35-6:18)... Neuman decided to go to work during the war because her family was not doing well financially. Her husband was on the verge of quitting his job when she suggested that she go to work. She found out about job opportunities at Vultee through her neighbor and was hired in 1942. Her husband supported her decision to go to work, but her father and brothers were outraged. Her father told her, "You can't work amongst people like that" because there was a perception that people who worked in factories were rough. They wanted to protect her and also were concerned about her arthritic condition. When she took the eye and hand coordination tests, however, she was told that only one or two people scored as high as she did. She did not have any problems using hand tools and operating a drill and a rivet gun came very easily to her. (6:18-8:22)... The application process at Vultee involved filling out paperwork. After she was hired around May 1942, she was placed in a training program located in a separate building. She trained for about two weeks before she went into the main plant. Most of the people in training were women because the "young men were in the service and it didn't leave very men to do these type of jobs." The men who did not go into the service were the ones who did the specialized work that was "beyond the women." (8:22-9:25)... Neuman cannot recall what kind of instructions she received before going to work. She was expected to wear a hair net to keep her hair from getting caught in the machinery. She had worn pants before while hiking and did not feel self-conscious about having to wear them to work. The style of the pants she wore were not very flattering and she thought she looked much better in a dress. (9:25-10:19)... The plant was located about twenty minutes away from her home. She rode the bus to work for several weeks and then she paid to carpool with a man who worked nearby the plant in Maywood. (10:19-16:18)... When Neuman went into the plant, she was assigned to work on the center jig of P-38 aircraft. She provides photographs of her work station and details the process of the operations. The women who worked in this section with her periodically worked in pairs in order to get the work done faster. The photographs also show Neuman standing on a step stool and working on the top part of the jig. The stool was sturdy, but Neuman talks about the time she fell off the stool. She was not seriously injured, but had to go to the first aid station located in the plant for an examination. (16:18-19:57)... Neuman enjoyed working at Vultee because she liked using her hands and meeting new people. She talks about the ethnic background of the work force. The Mexicans who worked at the plant were not discriminated against and were treated the same as the Anglos. She believes that this was also true in the city of Bell, where there was a large Mexican population. She believes that Vultee was one of the first plants to hire Blacks. Although Neuman never treated Blacks differently, she believes they were discriminated against at the plant. She recalls that Black employees who came from the South "were very shy and hard to mix with...and it was a hard situation for them." Neuman frequently worked along side Blacks on assembly line production. (19:57-22:37)... Neuman believes that there were about ten women working in her department, one of whom was an inspector. She illustrates the lay out of the department with some photographs, indicating that there were other women working in areas just outside her department. She recalls that a group of Mexican women worked in an assembly line section near her department. They usually had a difficult time pronouncing her first name and one reminded her friends to speak English when Neuman was around. (22:37-28:28)... Most of the women that Neuman worked with came from similar backgrounds. She knew where most of them lived, but that was the extent of their relationship. She talks about the women appearing in a photograph of her department. During lunch breaks, they found a spot in the plant and ate lunch together; however, Neuman could not recall what their conversations were about, only that they did not talk about their personal or family lives. She points out one woman who was a member of the Community party (CP) and tried to persuade Neuman to join the party. Neuman recalls that the majority of the people at Vultee were Democrats and she was very timid about expressing her Republican views, because her co-workers were "were almost like radicals." End of tape. *** File: rrrcneuman4.mp3 (0:00-0:50)... She continues to discuss a co-worker who was a member of the CP. Neuman explains that it was not abnormal during the war for people to become members of the CP. However, she believes that their affiliation with Communists was viewed negatively in the years following the war. (0:50-1:20)... Neuman did not join the union at Vultee because it was not necessary and she did not "like to be told she had to do something." There were people in the plant who were members of the union, but no one ever talked to her about the union or pressured her to join. (1:20-5:02)... She could not recall her starting wage at Vultee, but believes that when she left the company she was making $35 a week. She worked six days a week and occasionally on Sundays, which made it very difficult to manage her home alone. Her daughter was in junior high school at the time and she purchased all of the groceries for the family using ration coupons. Neuman and her husband shared household responsibilities. A typical day involved waking at 6:00 a.m. and working until 4:00 p.m. After work she prepared dinner for her family and did necessary household chores. Her earnings went towards living expenses and paying off their mortgage. Their combined incomes also allowed them to put some money away into savings. (5:02-10:49)... Neuman shows more photographs illustrating various operations. The majority of her responsibilities required riveting. She did not like bucking rivets because it was a difficult job. She describes an incident when she was "almost killed" while bucking rivets. Neuman moved into new sections within her department and by the time she left Vultee she was classified as an "A" assembly worker. (10:49-15:53)... Only two women in her social circle worked in defense during the war, one of whom was her sister who worked at Lockheed as a drill press operator. All of her friends went to work in stores or other jobs where the work was not difficult. Another sister considered leaving her waitress job for defense work until she calculated that she made more money than Neuman. Her friends viewed their work as a vital contribution to the war effort. At the same time, however, they thought Neuman was a little "off" for working in defense. Looking back, Neuman thinks of her work during the war as a broadening experience because she learned new things and met a lot of interesting people from different races and from different parts of the country. During the war, "I found out that I could do it and it was the type of thing that I could do and I liked it." (15:53-18:07)... Neuman started using tools when she was a young girl. She always had access to tools because her father was a mechanic. Instead of buying toys, Neuman and her siblings had to make their toys. Prior to going into defense, therefore, she knew how to operate most tools and operating a rivet gun came very easy to her. She continued to use tools in the home after she left Vultee. For Neuman, the most difficult part of her job was working long hours and standing on her feet all day. (18:07-20:38)... In terms of postwar expectations, Neuman states, "Our understanding was that it was a war job and that the men would have their jobs when they came back." She recalls that thousands of people were laid off when defense contracts expired after the war. She did not plan or try to get another job after she was laid off , indicating that she wanted to go back home and spend more time with her daughter. She encouraged her daughter to get an education and pursue a career. (20:38-24:40)... Neuman talks about her brothers being in the service during the war. Her mother was quite anxious when she did not hear from her sons for a long time. Neuman's older brother received a purple heart and a bronze star for his service. A lot of the women she worked were young and had brothers, boyfriends or husbands serving overseas. At thirty-one, Neuman was considered old among her co-workers. She believes that the oldest woman in their department was forty-eight. With loved ones overseas, their conversations revolved around production and how they could produce more to aid the war effort. The urgency to produce more was not an attitude shared by the men, but "we were always trying to get one more out. One more!" (24:40-26:35)... Towards the end of the war, Neuman moved into the wing tip section of the B-52. She comments on President Jimmy Carter's decision to scrap B-52 production in the 1970s. By 1945, people knew that the war was coming to an end. She was not sure if layoffs began as early as August. However, she recalls that most people were let go at around the same time when layoffs began. End of tape. *** File: rrrcneuman5.mp3 (0:00-1:58)... Neuman noticed a distinct shift in the the attitude towards production as the war came to a close. People knew that the war was going to end and that there would be layoffs. She digresses regarding being at Vultee when the first jet airplane was produced and flown in the skies above the plant. Typically, Vultee produced trainer planes and small parts during the war. The company was affiliated with Consolidated Aircraft in San Diego where Vultee parts were used to assemble large aircraft. (1:58-4:21)... Neuman estimates that approximately seventy-five percent of the work force at Vultee were women. She was not aware what percentage were Mexican or Black. Mexicans were not discriminated against at Vultee and received the same rate of pay as the White employees. She notes that Black workers were discriminated against outside the work place, not at the plant. When more Blacks were hired, she was transferred to assembly and asked to train these new employees. (4:21-6:23)... She was laid off in September or October of 1945. Most people were laid off around the same time because there was not enough work to keep people busy. In regards to her reaction after receiving a termination notice, Neuman states, "It didn't bother me a bit. I was ready to go home. I was tired." She would have left the company had she not been laid off because the work was too hard. For this reason, she encouraged her daughter to learn skills that would prepare for a lucrative career and did not require that she have to do any type of manual labor. (6:23-7:18)... It was difficult to manage when she was working. Dealing with food shortages and rationing was also inconvenient. Neuman's daughter brought the groceries for the family and occasionally had problems getting certain items from the grocer because she was so young. (7:18-8:21)... When Neuman returned to the home after the war it took her some time to readjust to domestic life. She resumed many of the activities she enjoyed prior to going to work at Vultee. She was involved in many of her daughter's activities with the Civil Air Patrol and the Rainbow Girls, an association sponsored the Masons and the Eastern Star. (8:21-10:55)... Although her husband did not oppose her decision to go to work during the war, he was relieved when she resumed her role as a housewife. Her husband was German and believed in very traditional gender roles. However, they talked about her going to work and decided that it was necessary to have a double income family. As a result of working at Vultee, she became even more efficient with tools and a little bit stronger, explaining that people were right when they told her she was going to get muscles. She never thought about returning to work because she was satisfied taking care of her home and family. At that time, "it wasn't a bad word to say you were a housewife either....It was a job that needed to be done too." (10:55-11:49)... Some of Neuman's friends who worked in non-defense jobs continued to work after the war was over because their jobs were easier. There were many times when Neuman came home exhausted after a hard day's work. (11:49-14:54)... Even though Neuman decided to stay home after the war, she did not have a negative attitude towards women who pursued a career and work outside the home. She talks about her daughter and how she emphasized that her daughter go to college and pursue a career. Her daughter thought about becoming a scientist. In high school, she took a career evaluation test and was told that she was a natural teacher. In college, she focused on teaching and psychology courses and started her career as a school psychologist. She eventually married, but does not have any children. (14:54-16:05)... If Neuman were once again a young woman just starting out, she would probably go to college and pursue a teaching career. Her parents never expected her to attend college, nor did they have enough money to send her to college. (16:05-18:11)... She discusses her attitudes towards the status of women in the work place. She does not believe that women are entitled to promotions based on seniority. Women should be entitled to equal pay and that their salaries should be commensurate with the type of work they are in and their skill level. (18:11-22:26)... Neuman talks about the Los Angeles Times article that discussed the role of women in the defense industry during the war. When she read the article, she did not get the impression that young people would understand the feeling of patriotism that flooded the country when war was declared. She became hopeful that patriotism would return to the country in a time a war after seeing how people reacted to the release of American hostages from Iran. She also disagreed with the article because it portrayed women as passive participants during the war. "Women got out and worked because they wanted to work and they worked knowing full well that this was for a short time." Neuman went to work out of necessity. End of tape.
- SUBJECT BIO - Charlcia Neuman was thirty-two years old when she went to work at Vultee Aircraft in 1942. Motivated by both economic necessity and patriotism, she became a wage earner for the first time in her life. Born in Oregon in 1911, Neuman was raised in southern California, the fifth of five children. Marrying shortly after graduating from high school, just before the Depression, her life revolved around her daughter and her Eastern Star activities. Although the family suffered economic hardship during the Depression, her "Germanic" husband would not have tolerated her taking a job then, even after he lost his. But working during the war was a different matter. And from the start, she planning on working only for the duration. Neuman enjoyed her work and became very proficient. She also enjoyed the relationships that she developed on the job. However, as planned, at war's end, she returned to the home and resumed her domestic duties. She also used her artistic talents and skills until she was forced to curtail them three years before the interview as a result of crippling arthritis. A single very long interview with Neuman was conducted in her home in Bell by Sherna Berger Gluck. The interview proceeded only after a rather testy initial conversation. Neuman was suspicious of me and somewhat hostile, believing that I was distorting the housewife's story. Before we began the interview, she grilled me about the article on the project that had appeared in the Los Angeles Times. After we chatted for a while, she understood that my views of women's experiences were considerably more complicated that depicted in the newspaper story, and we actually hit it off. However, because of the initial testiness, and her avowed Republicanism, I was a bit reluctant to pursue some lines of questioning with her, e.g. her views on abortion. However, after her death, her daughter told me I might have been surprised with her mother's responses. TOPICS - family history and background; parents; siblings; childhood; schooling; family life; household chores; clothing; socioeconomic status; physical activities; and housing;recreational activities; clothing; illness and development of arthritis; dating and marriage; life during the Depression; marital relationship; social life and friends; social activities; husband's work history; biPearl Harbor; attitude towards Japanese internment; decision to go into defense work; application process at Vultee; work clothing; job assignment; work process; work force demographics; race relations; racial disccommunism; union; wages; daughter; husband; family life; household responsibilities; work assignment and responsibilities; work injuries; patriotism; production quotas; work ethic among women at Vultee; brothers' mpostwar layoffs; ethnicity composition of Vultee work force; race relations; racial discrimination; work force demographics; husband; gender roles; domesticity; daughter; reflections on war work ; attitude towards
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