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Rozner, Sarah (audio interview #1 of 20)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the tenth interview with Sarah Rozner conducted in her home. This interview has a problem with the audio quality when Rozner speaks too closely into the microphone. TOPICS - 1938 move to Los Angeles; activities in Los Angeles; factionalism in ACWA: work as a union organizer; conditions in the Los Angeles job market and in the union; ACWA shift to New Dealism;ideological shift in the ACWA; conditions in the union in Los Angeles; role as chairwoman at Louart,1946; treatment of women in the union; 8/7/1973
- Date
- 2020-04-03
- Resource Type
- Creator
- Campus
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- Notes
- File: lhgwsrozner19.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-6:43)... Tape introduction. When she left Chicago for Los Angeles in 1938, she was suffering from a chest condition and had been laid off at Hart, Schaffner and Marx. She packed most of her belongings into a 1936 Rio and drove out to Los Angeles with $800 in her pocket and $1,000 in the bank in case of a medical emergency. Rozner's sister accompanied her on the trip to Los Angeles. She digresses into a discussion of her brother-in-law offering her an apartment complex to manage in 1946, making $400 a month. She also discusses purchasing a home with her sisters in Sherman Oaks in the latter part of her life. In relating these experiences, she notes that it is often difficult to keep track of a chronological sequence because so many memories overlap each other. (6:43-10:36)... During their drive to Los Angeles, her sister was very scared, especially when they were stopped by the police in Texas for speeding. However, Rozner describes herself as a safe driver, indicating she only received two parking tickets during the thirty years she drove a vehicle. On the way out to Los Angeles, she and her sister stayed in motels and the least Rozner drove a day was 400 miles. (10:36-13:02)... When she arrived in Los Angeles, it was difficult to find work. She did not work for close to a year until she was hired as union organizer for the ACWA. Between the time she arrived in Los Angeles and went to work for the union, she did not work or participate in any activities. She slept in her car, but did not tell her family or her friends about this. She survived on grapes, day old bread, and cheese until she became a union organizer and began earning $25 a week. (13:02-20:18)... She believes she started working as a union organizer in the latter part of 1938, at which time she organized and participated in the laundry workers strike. She worked with a Spanish-speaking man to organize the laundry workers, but comments that she did most of the work. She organized the workers, did all of the preparation work for the strike, went shopping for food supplies, and was responsible for kitchen detail during the strike. This was her first exposure to Black and Mexican workers, but it only took her a short time to gain their confidence. At this time, people were required to obtain individual credentials to picket; however, she did not have these credentials and picketed anyway. She talks abaout the struggle with the communists in the ACWA, who were very strong in the union when she first arrived in Los Angeles. Slim (Philip) Connelly was a communist and the secretary of the CIO. As a result of her experiences with the communists in Chicago, 1923-26, she could not fall in line with the communists. Prior to WWII, the communists expressed antiwar sentiments and spoke against Sidney Hillman. When Connelly was ostracized, another communist was hired in his place and the battle to oust the communist element from the ACWA in Los Angeles began. (20:18-26:18)... Prior to the laundry workers strike, there was an established union and Hilda Shapiro and others used their own money to pay for a union office. The manager of the union (Balabanoff??) was not an efficient union manager and did not have any knowledge of the laundry industry. Rozner was assigned to assist the manager of the laundry worker's Local, but she contends that she did all of the work , noting that it was not unusual in the union for women do all of the work and men get all the credit . The laundry strike included approximately 400 people, the majority of whom were women. After the strike was settled, Rozner notes that everything went to "pot." (26:18-27:03)... The Police Red Squad stipulated that union representatives could not participate in picketing. She participated in the laundry workers strike anyway, which is why she dodged the Red Squad when she went into a saloon. She believes that she could have been shot for her picketing activities. (27:03-29:29)... After the laundry workers strike, she went to great lengths to get Ellet to the Los Angeles office. When he finally came to Los Angeles, she worked with him to get the union organized. She recalls that the President of the Joint Board remarked that she was sitting on her ass because she was always in the union office; however, she worked in the office from 6:00 a.m. until 1:00 a.m. She did not necessarily prefer working in the union office, but had no choice because she could not find work in the shops. (29:29-33:59)... People stayed away from the union office because they believed the office and the telephones were tapped and they feared being framed by the Red Squad. She did not share these fears and continued to work in the union office. However, she valued her life and was not looking for opportunities to be hurt, even though she continued to take chances. She recalls an incident when a manager was framed by an employer and arrested by the Red Squad. When things settled down, she began working as a semi-Business Agent in addition to her responsibilities as an organizer. She took the employer who framed the manager to the Labor Relations Board and he went out of business. This employer made his employees work eight hours, at which time they were punched out and then sent back to work. The workers did not question this because there was so little work available in Los Angeles and they did not want to join the union for fear of losing their jobs. At this time, the union was very weak, which Rozner believes was still true at the time of the interview. (33:59-36:13)... When the ACWA was started in Los Angeles it was predominantly operated by Jews who belonged to the Workmen's Circle and worked in the shops themselves. She believes the ACWA in Los Angeles was first formed in 1920. She digresses into a discussion on the ACWA providing economic assistance to industries on the verge of going out of business. When she worked at Hart, Schaffner and Marx in Chicago, the union took similar actions, such as asking business agents to take a reduction in their wages. Although she did not want this reduction, she accepted it because she did not want to put 8,000 people out of a job. (36:13-39:20)... In general, she believes that the women's clothing industry was in very poor condition in Los Angeles, indicating that the ACWA is a stronger union than the ILGWU. The communist element in Los Angeles was always strong, especially in the 1930s. The union and its membership has changed dramatically over the years. For instance, there are very few Jewish workers or employers in Los Angeles, and the shops are dominated by other ethnic groups, such as Mexican and Japanese workers (sic). When she came to Los Angeles, she was interested in promoting leadership roles for Black workers. She recalls having a conversation with a Black Business Agent who told Rozner that Blacks no longer wanted to work in the tailor industry. She believes that the only workers interested in this type of work are Mexican illegal immigrants, but this is a problem because they are deported quite often because of their illegal status. (39:20-43:54)... She believes that the union lacks idealism and it focuses on big business. This shift in ideology occurred with the New Deal. She digresses into a discussion on the value of the dollar and capitalism in relation to the labor movement. She also recalls a conversation she had with Frank Rosenblum, in which he concluded that service industries were the only businesses that would survive in today's economy. end of tape File: lhgwsrozner20.mp3 (0:00-7:36)... Tape begins with discussion on shift in ACWA ideology. The original goal of the ACWA was to gradually take over representation of the entire industry. The union shifted from a socialist ideology when Franklin D. Roosevelt introduced the New Deal. [Rozner shifts to talking about a speech she gave in 1924 or 1926 in support of Eugene V. Debs; the ACWA supported Robert M. Lafollette.] Most people in the union were either communists or with the New Deal. People like her were neither; they remained socialists and stood in the way of the union. (7:36-9:50)... The unions suffered in Los Angeles because the city was involved more in agricultural production rather than industry. The clothing industry in Los Angeles included both men's and women's clothing manufacturers. Workers in the ILGWU did not have as many benefits as those in the ACWA; she believes that the ACWA was a stronger union than the ILGWU. (9:50-20:00)... After the laundry workers strike, she began organizing clothing industry workers. At the time, the ILGWU was not very strong. In 1941, she went to work for Louart, but was fired when the boss caught her talking to cutters about organizing for the union. She went back to this shop two years later and connected with the workers there who were union sympathizers. She believes that employers benefited from the union because they were secure from stoppages and bad work. When she worked as a chairwoman at Louart, Rozner encouraged good work and prompt work schedules. She does't believe that she was trying to indoctrinate other workers with her socialist ideology; she simply wanted things to run smoothly so that people would have a secure job and good working conditions. When she left Louart, the shop went out of business because of petty misunderstandings between the employer and the workers. As chairwoman, Rozner instituted programs and organized the shop as a replica of the ACWA. Her activities threatened the union because she was powerful and had a large following; also, she handled things herself without the assistance of the union business agent. (20:00-24:19)... She worked as the chairwoman at Louart from 1946-53 and belonged to Local 278, which was the coatmakers, dressmakers, and pantmakers. She was also a member of the Joint Board, the Executive Board, and the Grievance Board of the local. In 1953, she began training someone to take her place as chair of the shop because she did not want to stay in this position forever. She did not consider her work just a job. Her original goal was to open the door for women, which she did. As a chairlady [sic] she tried to inspire people to do better in their lives. (24:19-31:15)... Rozner describes the treatment of women in union positions in Los Angeles, citing several cases. When Hilda Shapiro had charges brought against her, Rozner was the only one who came to her defense. Shapiro was fined $100 and told she could not speak at local meetings. Rozner appealed to Shapiro's friends on the Joint Board and the Executive Board, but they did not want to oppose the union. Rozner appealed to the manager of the union and the ruling against Shapiro was dropped. Tape interruption - telephone call Charges were also brought against Sadie Gooman, the Secretary of the Joint Board. Rozner spoke to the Joint Board on her behalf, arguing that if similar allegations were made against a man they would not be brought to the floor, and that it was unbecoming for a member of the Joint Board to have charges on his or her record. (31:15-33:44)... She discusses her relationship with Posner, indicating that there were times when she wanted to kill him. She recalls writing Rosenblum about the way Posner was treating her. She generally tried not to carry any animosity towards other people, but did not allow people to step on her. (33:44-36:48)... She discusses her relationship with Sadie Goodman, indicating that there was a time the two did not speak because Goodman and Shapiro got into a disagreement and Rozner refused to abandon Shapiro as a friend. In general, Rozner admired Goodman and recalls the time they spent together at Brookwood Labor College. However, she does not believe that Goodman made a substantial contribution to helping women. Like Bessie Abramovitz Hillman, Goodman often told Rozner she was crazy for pursuing women's issues. Rozner believes that the union treated women like slaves and tried to take jobs away from women whenever possible. She believes that men "hit women over the head" whenever a woman worked her way into a high union position. (36:48-38:47)... When Shapiro got married she left the union. Rozner describes her love and admiration for Shapiro,who died only a few months before this interview. Although Goodman and Shapiro were in Los Angeles prior to Rozner, they were not as active in the union as she was. End of tape.
- SUBJECT BIO - Sarah Rozner joined the ranks of the labor movement the minute she set foot on US soil and began working in men's clothing in Chicago just prior to the 1910 strike. She organized practically every shop in which she worked - unless she was fired first - and was particularly interested in mobilizing women and helping them to assert their rights. Her woman/feminist consciousness led her to work on the establishment of a Woman's Local of the ACWA in Chicago (Local 275). She worked with other women in the ACWA to establish a Woman's Bureau, but did not succeed. She became one of the first women Business Agents in tailoring in Chicago in 1921, and held various positions in the shops and in the union. When she moved to Los Angeles in 1938, she continued to organize at the shop level, establishing education programs for workers at Louart. She continued to advocate for women, and when she retired in 1959, she established a scholarship for women. Even after her retirement, Rozner remained involved with the union, became a member of CLUW (Coalition of Labor Women) after its formation, and remained outspoken on women's issues, particularly in the labor movement. The interviews with Rozner totaled almost hours, divided fairly evenly between her activities in Chicago and in Los Angeles. She was interviewed as part of the Feminist History Research Project labor series, referred by the ACWA. INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the tenth interview with Sarah Rozner conducted in her home. This interview has a problem with the audio quality when Rozner speaks too closely into the microphone. TOPICS - 1938 move to Los Angeles; activities in Los Angeles; factionalism in ACWA: work as a union organizer; conditions in the Los Angeles job market and in the union; ACWA shift to New Dealism;ideological shift in the ACWA; conditions in the union in Los Angeles; role as chairwoman at Louart,1946; treatment of women in the union;
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